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Post by jordan3 on Jul 22, 2008 21:24:12 GMT -5
Did you all watch the Shock and Sparks tonight? It was a very entertaining game in all respects. The most interesting part was the final minute of the game when tempers flared. The initial altercation occurred between Parker and Ford, but they were separated and things moved on. A few seconds later, Parker and Pierson go at it. No punches were thrown (in some people's opinion), but the benches nearly cleared (and they did to some degree). After the refs watched replays for a few minutes, Parker, Milton-Jones, Pierson, and Rick Mahorn were ejected. Mahorn was ejected because the refs thought he pushed Lisa Leslie to the court in the process of separating players. Milton-Jones was ejected for physically assaulting Mahorn (punches in the back) in response to his pushing of Leslie. Any thoughts?
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Post by ducky24 on Jul 22, 2008 22:04:39 GMT -5
oh yeah, i def. watched that game. someone was shooting free throws and parker and pierson got very physical and parker pushed pierson to the floor and pierson pushed parker to the floor, and then went over on top of her and parker slung her to the floor and parker punched pierson.... the benches cleared of course and rick mahorn ended up pushing lisa because i guess he thought she was trying to get into the fight and milton hit mahorn for pushing lisa. lisa later stated in the interview that she was just trying to pull candace off of pierson, and had no intentions of getting into the fight. mahorn, pierson, parker and milton got ejected and cheryl ford had to leave on a wheelchair because she injured her knee while trying to break up the fight. there will def. be suspensions for parker and pierson and fines for all of the people that got ejected. i wonder if parker will still be able to compete in the olympics
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Post by scarab on Jul 22, 2008 22:36:28 GMT -5
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Post by ducky24 on Jul 22, 2008 22:47:33 GMT -5
this is crazy. the wnba barely gets recognized for all the positve things happening but when something like this happens, the world goes crazy over it. i hope this doesnt hurt the league
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Post by djtank on Jul 23, 2008 8:48:48 GMT -5
Many of the other players are jealous of Parker because she is rookie that just came in and is getting all of the attention. It does not help her in getting along with her jealous counterparts that she happens to be flat out beautiful and legitimately the best player in the league.
Plenette Pierson should be suspended for actually starting the fight. She delivered the first strike by shoving Parker to the ground and then charging her as she was trying to get back up. Parker swung at her out of self-defense. Deanna Nolan comes in and jumps on top of Parker with very bad intentions obviously.
Pierson and Nolan should be suspended and fined. Allegedly she (Cheryl) had been being very physical throughout the entire game with Parker.
These women are clearly furious with jealousy and envy and their inward hatred just happened to come to the surface tonight. I think it's pathetic.
I think Lisa Leslie's postgame interview was right on point. She is one of the veteran leaders and spokeswomen for the entire league and I think she is exactly right when she says that what transpired is not how the women's game is to be represented.
Rick Mahorn's wouldn't have had a problem had he conducted himself as Cooper and Laimbeer did. Clearly, Mahorn went after Sparks players exclusively. He should be suspended and fined as well.
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Post by jordan3 on Jul 23, 2008 10:42:16 GMT -5
DJtank: In fairness, maybe some people are jealous of Parker, her beauty, and her skills. However, I think you have distorted the story more than ESPN did last night and this morning. 1. Pierson did not start the altercation. Ford did on the opposite end (20 seconds earlier). Nor did she shove Parker to start the incident. She was boxing out during the rebound and pushed Parker back out of her spot (which happens every time a free throw is taken). I guess Parker took exception to it after the previous incident and her 2 missed free throws. Parker actually pulled Pierson down first and Pierson reacted. 2. There were no swings or punches thrown except by Delisha Milton-Jones. Pierson proceeded to walk up on Parker while Parker was still on the court. Of course, she has a right to defend herself by pulling Pierson down to the court. 3. I see Deanna Nolan as a person separating a potential brawl. Unfortunately, her takedown of Parker was a bit much, but nothing escalated from that part at all. Nolan should not be suspended. If she is, then so should every other Spark and Shock player on the court and those that left the bench area. 4. I don't think these women are furious with jealousy and envy. I think they actually unfairly epitomize the hate that their coaches had and still have for one another. It is a well documented story that the Lakers and Pistons never got along. Cooper and Laimbeer hate each other. Bill Laimbeer was probably the most hated NBA player during his reign in the league. 5. Mahorn did not "go after Spark players exclusively." He was acting as a mediator. Unfortunately, Leslie was making an effort to get away from him in order to get to her teammate. She was flailing her arms and her momentum took her backwards as Mahorn (who is nearly 200lbs larger than Leslie) was pushing her away. The whole incident was unfortunate, but Mahorn did not seek out any one player and he didn't push Leslie intentionally (at least shown from all visual replays). Perhaps he should be fined for leaving the bench area, but so should everyone else (excluding the head coaches) that left the bench areas. It is unfortunate that the incident occurred. I think that had the refs done a better job (and were more consistent last night) this would have never happened. Reversing the call where Hornbuckle knocked the ball away from Ferdinand-Harris (and the ball did go off the fingers of Ferdinand-Harris) probably went a long way in triggering the whole incident. If I am making the decisions in the front office of the league, you have to suspend Parker, Pierson, and Milton-Jones for disorderly conduct. In fact, Milton-Jones should be suspended the longest. Whether Mahorn acted "intentionally or not," she saw the end of the situation between he and Leslie. She is the only one that threw punches and it wasn't necessary.
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Post by afoundingfan on Jul 23, 2008 15:06:35 GMT -5
I caught the game live starting in the 3rd quarter.
I wouldn't say Ford "started" it on the other end. She was going after a rebound and got the ball away from Parker. Yes I guess Ford could have given up prior to that but with so little time left she was doing what she thought she needed to do. When the play was whistled dead Ford dropped the ball and started walking away. Parker followed her with The Stare and her teammates had to restrain her. She may have also been talking to Ford, but I can't recall. From my point of view it just seemed like Parker was pissed that the ball was taken away from her and she made a bad choice to "continue the discussion" as it were.
At that time perhaps the refs should have done something...Ts, warnings...
And Jordan, you beat me to it by pointing out the reversed call. I think the straw that broke the camel's back after several bad calls by the refs was that call. The ball clearly touched the Sparks last, and the original call was the right call. If the refs had not lost control of the game until that point, then definitely on that one, they might as well gone packing because they were no longer in charge.
There's been so much said about CP and PP and who should have done what to whom...so I'll just say that Mahorn did push Leslie, but I can't tell if it was intended as malicious or not, it kind of looks that way, and then he thought, "oh...bad idea...my bad..." and went to try to help her up once he realized it, I don't know.
I don't know if DMJ saw the whole thing or just Leslie flying across the floor and Mahorn with his arms outstretched.
So I pose the question to all of you: What would we have done if we saw our teammate get knocked down by Mahorn? We know it's against the rules and punishable behavior, but I bet most or all of us would have done the same thing just the same.
I also could not see what exactly Leslie did prior to the push.
Leslie was a completely polished pro (despite the look in her eyes) during the postgame interview and she's gotten a lot of props for it, deservedly so. I'm just not 100% sure she is completely innocent. She might be, but I'm just sayin' that there may be more to it.
I always want the Dream to play hard and not be pushovers, and I know tempers can flare, but...hope they don't get on the news for stuff like what happened last night.
AFF
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Post by civic97 on Jul 23, 2008 17:24:03 GMT -5
I have to say this surprised me. I'm used to T's from players and coaches personally losing their tempers but a "fight"? The WNBA is competitive so this was bound to happen at some time or another. No one person (or team) is perfect. It's bad publicity because the WNBA has prided themselves on having players who are highly competitive but cam keep their cool (as a whole) But unfortunately its like Katie Smith said, people like to see fights. So I'm curious to see what happens as far as discipline is concerned. I highly doubt Parker will be ejected from the Olympic team but there does need to be some action taken for those who played a part in starting the altercation. Thousands of young girls look up to these players and they need to know that no matter how good of a player you become, rules are rules. But I do agree with afoundingfan...we can judge the teams all day but are we sure we wouldn't have done the same?? I'm not one for fighting but I would try to break it up...that's just me.
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Post by jordan3 on Jul 23, 2008 20:36:06 GMT -5
We all are also forgetting that in the mist of this situation Cheryl Ford went down with an injury. She was carted off in a wheel chair. Apparently, she has a torn ACL in the right knee and will miss the remainder of the season. This is so unfortunate for her, the Shock, and the WNBA. Her left knee has been injured for the past two seasons.
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Post by jordan3 on Jul 24, 2008 13:14:03 GMT -5
So the suspensions are as follows: Pierson - 4 games; Mahorn, Bobbitt, and Page - 2 games; Braxton, Humphrey, Powell, Sam, Leslie, Parker, and Milton-Jones - 1 game.
I'm amazed. The suspensions will be staggered because I think you have to have 8 players in uniform at all time.
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Post by jaye on Jul 24, 2008 15:31:45 GMT -5
i dissagree greatly jordan.....pierson "boxed out" parker clear past the foulline....she was pushing parker even as parker was trying to run down court....she got tangled up with parker while pushing her and parker slung her off trying to free herself.....pierson fell and parker also fell being off balance....pierson then took it upon herself to run up on a fallen parker in attack mode.....i personally would have kicked her....
and if mahorn has a condition where his body involuntarily pushes people without his intent....he needs to get that seen about.... he was a bully and a dirty player that was detested by the entire league when he was playing.....how shock fans are trying to protray him as some kind of benevolent giant now is beyond me.....the only thing he didn't do while pushing lisa down was yell "crackhead" at her.....
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Post by afoundingfan on Jul 24, 2008 15:45:28 GMT -5
One game for Milton-Jones...that is completely ridiculous. If I were her I'd hire a private detective to watch Mahorn's wife's every move.
Parker, one game...I'm still digesting that one. I tell you what though, if some other players resented her BEFORE...she'd better grow more eyes in the back of her head!
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Post by afoundingfan on Jul 24, 2008 15:56:46 GMT -5
It's all about the league's bank account...but ultimately at what price?
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Post by jaye on Jul 24, 2008 17:25:22 GMT -5
when you're being attacked by the one person in the league with the reputation of least being able to control themself....what would you do?.....there's boxing out.....and then there's what pierson was doing....parker didn't search her out and sling her to the ground....she was getting pierson off of her.....
fans make designations like rookie and veteran.....players don't.....an elite ballplayer doesn't care whether they've been in the league a year or a thousand years.....the person across from them is just another ballplayer to them.....and their not going to back down because they've got seniority.....pierson stepped to her....and she responded.....
i agree parker should have gotten more than just a game simply because she was one of the principal participants.....but pierson instigated this and kept it going....and she deserves every day she gets.....
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Post by djtank on Jul 25, 2008 6:49:26 GMT -5
and if mahorn has a condition where his body involuntarily pushes people without his intent....he needs to get that seen about.... he was a bully and a dirty player that was detested by the entire league when he was playing.....how shock fans are trying to protray him as some kind of benevolent giant now is beyond me.....the only thing he didn't do while pushing lisa down was yell "crackhead" at her..... I agree wit you on that Jaye
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