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Post by cardman on Aug 16, 2009 8:08:00 GMT -5
All the Ivory/Shalee arguments make for some interesting, although sometimes irritating reading.
To in ANY way limit the comparison of last year's team with Ivory, and this year's team with Shalee, is to be, at best, wearing blinders. This team has so many different players, and better chemestry, as to make such a narrow comparison stupid.
The one thing that remains constant, is there is still a blithering idiot in charge. You cannot run amd gun with the team, and slow it down at the same time with Shalee. She has NO inteligent game plan that I can see.
The saving grace of this situation, is that Chamique has the knowledge and communication skills (and the rest of the team is inteligent enough to listen) to keep an otherwise LEADERLESS team functioning in a pretty d**n efficient manner.
On the bright side, worst to first is truely possible! GO DREAM!!!!
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Post by nextivorylatta on Aug 16, 2009 11:53:35 GMT -5
omggggg ive been really quiet on the ivory shalee thing but seriously the things i have read is really retarded..We shud be happy that we have such a great team..i was glad too see shalee score for the last 2 games but her defense on bird was horrible and yeah ivorys defense isnt all that great but she was chasing bird all night last night i thought we was playing tag or something..ivory got a three and then meadors gon take her out..like omg she jus got a three pointer let me take her out and put shalee in so she can play tag with a bird..uh no not a good move..ivory was really frustrated and has been for at least 3 games b.c of this stupidity by mm..i kno its a run for the playoffs but its called team work not jus 9 ppl helping each other..yeah i said 9 b.c armentie and ivory are basically jus sitting there watching...the ppl who are criticizing ivory need to check da stats..if it wasnt for ivory coming back and scoring 18 points almost every game do yu think we wud win..i dont..i cant wait to see if someone replys to wat ive said cuz i have more to say trust me.. i had to edit this b.c some of yu has alreeady made peace on this topic but i had to jus speak my mind no hard feelings..
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Post by lattafan on Aug 16, 2009 11:59:07 GMT -5
I would first like to apologize if my posts were a distraction to anyone. That was not my intention. I just won't allow Latta's accomplishments/full body of work to be sullied by a troll. One would have to be wearing blinders, ignorant, and just cruel to try to compare last season's starters and bench to this season's. We have a wbb icon/legend a/k/a the "Claw" leading our team this season - enough said. DeSouza is healthy this season and Lyttle has been a God send and an Angel landed. "Dreams" came true this season. I would like to see all of the guards get more playing time. That's what SHOULD happen when you have a deep bench. I am also surprised that Miller is not getting more playing time. She's also a great guard. Go figure...
In summary, I'm thrilled that the Dream is making the playoffs! I want nothing but the best for this team. GO DREAM!
One Dream...One Team!!!!
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Post by lattafan on Aug 16, 2009 12:21:00 GMT -5
omggggg ive been really quiet on the ivory shalee thing but seriously the things i have read is really retarded..We shud be happy that we have such a great team..i was glad too see shalee score for the last 2 games but her defense on bird was horrible and yeah ivorys defense isnt all that great but she was chasing bird all night last night i thought we was playing tag or something..ivory got a three and then meadors gon take her out..like omg she jus got a three pointer let me take her out and put shalee in so she can play tag with a bird..uh no not a good move..ivory was really frustrated and has been for at least 3 games b.c of this stupidity by mm..i kno its a run for the playoffs but its called team work not jus 9 ppl helping each other..yeah i said 9 b.c armentie and ivory are basically jus sitting there watching...the ppl who are criticizing ivory need to check da stats..if it wasnt for ivory coming back and scoring 18 points almost every game do yu think we wud win..i dont..i cant wait to see if someone replys to wat ive said cuz i have more to say trust me.. i had to edit this b.c some of yu has alreeady made peace on this topic but i had to jus speak my mind no hard feelings.. If anyone would do the research and look at the stats last year against Seattle they would find that Ivory burned Sue last year in Seattle (I believe it was the away game in Seattle but could have been home). I'm shocked that MM didn't remember that...oh well. I recall that game because there were a lot of comments about it on Rebkell last season. BTW, I am also a Sue Bird fan; she's a great guard, Olympian, and has such a great demeanor.
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Post by #1 FAN OF DA DREAM! on Aug 16, 2009 12:26:51 GMT -5
i agree with nextivorylatta girl dont be ashamed u r tellin the truth no body under no cercumstances shuld compare last year to this year this years team is so much better and chamique is runnin the team
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d3murf
Shooting Gaurd
Posts: 83
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Post by d3murf on Aug 16, 2009 13:08:29 GMT -5
I was at this game ....OF COURSE lol I'm still beating my Angel drum in every post I do! She is the most talented, versatile player on the team! On a team full of talented players....On another note, I was glad to see MM sit Izy "ball hog" marques in the 4th. MM does ride the hot hand for the most part. As far the whole Shalee/Ivory thing goes; Shalee needs to be starter flat out! She can go wherever she'd like on the court. I'd love to see her get more aggressive on the scoring end, but will settle for her penetrate and dish skills. I think her defense can be improved--but she has potential there too. I'm a huge Shalee fan, in fact I'll go out on a limb and say she could be the next Sue Bird! (yeah I said it) As for Ivory, her intangibles are intensity and her ability to hit the long ball on occasion. She gets everyone pumped up! Those attributes are great for someone who needs to come off the bench. She a "Microwave" Johnson type--who will come in for spurts and heat it up. Shalee is consistent at what she does, with tons of room to improve....Great team overall, got to give the general manager props for building a deep roster...Mix of veteran and young gals
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Post by jaye on Aug 16, 2009 14:32:45 GMT -5
for long periods of time....all shalee does is bring the ball down and get out of the way.....her defender helps out on who ever has the ball.....and half the time she doesn't even bring the ball down.....izi or mique will perform that task.....and shalee's defense consists of running after her man carrying an intense look on her face.....
and ivorys best games have come when she's in long enough to get into the flow of the game....she doesn't, as vinny johnson come in with instant offense....the comparison is a bad one.....and one made simply for the purpose of justifying latta's treatment at the hands of mm.....as were the ridiculous notions that ivory plays better off of he bench.....
latta is about at her breaking point....it's going to effect her game....and the detractors will further use that to try and justify thier positions.....it's a criminal treatment of a great little player....especially when it's done for the benefit of a player that is good.....but certainly nothing outstanding....
the girl can play.....as can virtually everyone at this level....but she's not as good as latta.....she's not even as good as miller who can do everything that shalee can do and also score some.....lehning will go long periods of doint absolutely nothing....sometimes spanning several games....and then she will make a nice play or two....and her supporters will start yelling everyone down with her greatness.....latta and millers problem is that they are not as cute.....
mm's treatment of latta....and young.....puts a stain on a season that we all should be enjoying whole heartedly.....i remember the same situation when lobo was playing for the liberty....we were forced fed how great lobo was and was going to be.....when there were three or four players on her own team better than she was.....but not as "marketable".....
shalee's fans subtle suggestion is that shalee is the reason that we are winning....when her contribution has been minimal....truth is we would be winning with either shalee....latta....or miller starting and playing the lions share of mins at the point.....but the question is who has been playing in a manner that deserves to start.....the question is what's fair.....
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Post by lattafan on Aug 16, 2009 15:27:19 GMT -5
The next Sue Bird? What did she do at Kansas? Were they an Elite Eight or Final Four team while she was there? I never even heard of Shalee until a few months ago. I'm not trying to be funny. Can someone please post her college bio?
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d3murf
Shooting Gaurd
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Post by d3murf on Aug 16, 2009 17:20:05 GMT -5
Kansas State.... Sue Played with about 9 other all americans. Shalee was big 12 player of the year! Can't just watch Big East basketball, watch it all....
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Post by shaleefan on Aug 16, 2009 17:34:48 GMT -5
Before I get started, I want it noted that I am posting this information at the request of lattafan - not because I am some sort of brainless groupie!
First off, Shalee played at Kansas State not at Kansas. It may not seem like a big difference, but saying the two in the same sentence is a no-no in most parts of the Sunflower state. Shalee's college teams were solid, but not spectacular. They never went past the second round of the NCAA tourney. They had lots of good players but no flat-out spectacular players. They were definitely a team that took each individual's strengths and created a product that was much better the individual ingredients. As a freshman, Shalee's team won the WNIT crown - I know that isn't great, but it was a team led by freshman and sophomores. Shalee was the starting point all four years. Her sophomore season was a huge disappointment. The team was off to a great start and just after the beginning of the conference season, Marlies Gipson, hurt her knee. It was an emotional defeat and the team really didn't pick up the pieces again until the post season. That year, the Wildcats finished tied for dead last in the Big 12 but managed to make it to the WNIT semi-finals.
Shalee's junior and senior seasons were great. The team started off a little rocky her junior year but ended up knocking down one ranked team after another when the Big 12 season started. That year they finished first in the Big 12, clinching the title on KU's court. I drove six and a half hours to that ball game (and had to be back at work the next morning at 7:45 and I had bronchitis and absolutely no voice with which to yell!). It was worth every minute and cough. It ended up being Shalee's best scoring performance in college with 29 points. Shalee's senior season was solid but bittersweet when she was diagnosed with mono in February. Her stats were hurt badly by this and she missed three games but was at under 50% for about another three. I don't think she fully recovered until well after the end of the season. She had the second longest starting streak in the nation when she had to be benched.
I don't know if I would compare her to Sue Bird... I think that only time can tell us if they are on the same court. What I can tell you is that Shalee has worked her tail for her entire life to get where she is. She comes from a town of 1,500 people in very rural southwest Kansas. There are NO AAU teams in the area. Her access to the "perks" that most elite high school players enjoy was very limited. The summer before she started college, she played AAU ball for the first time (I could be wrong here...). The team was based in the Kansas City are which is a good seven hour drive from Sublette, Kansas. Her parents drove her there for practices and then went all over the country that summer - her team won the national title. Her parents are not wealthy and have also worked their tails off to help Shalee live her Dream.
Shalee's strength has always been assists - she broke the Kansas State career record very early in the her senior season. By the end of the her career she had an amazing 800 assist - 211 over the previous record. By the way, that record had been set by Megan Mahoney who also played in the W. Shalee is ranked in the top 5 in Kansas State history for rebounds. She often led her team in this column and actually amassed a number of triple-doubles in her Kansas State career.
The thing Shalee does best is lead and make those around her better - I think Sue Bird probably has those same traits and that might be part of the comparison. Shalee is a coaches dream because she always wants to be better and will do what she is told. Shalee's personality is very charismatic and outside of basketball, the world is wide open for her. I think she is just now reaching a comfort level with this team which allows her to be more of that leader and possibly to be a little more aggressive toward the goal. She's got spunk and you'll see more and more of it in the future!
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Post by jaye on Aug 16, 2009 17:45:54 GMT -5
the expansion draft is coming next year.....i really think latta's relationship with the dream is irrevocably broken....there's no way that you can be treated as latta has been treated by mm and not harbor resentment....i don't think she'll be looking back at her time with the dream fondly when she moves on.....and i don't blame her a bit....
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d3murf
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Post by d3murf on Aug 16, 2009 17:55:22 GMT -5
Before I get started, I want it noted that I am posting this information at the request of lattafan - not because I am some sort of brainless groupie! First off, Shalee played at Kansas State not at Kansas. It may not seem like a big difference, but saying the two in the same sentence is a no-no in most parts of the Sunflower state. Shalee's college teams were solid, but not spectacular. They never went past the second round of the NCAA tourney. They had lots of good players but no flat-out spectacular players. They were definitely a team that took each individual's strengths and created a product that was much better the individual ingredients. As a freshman, Shalee's team won the WNIT crown - I know that isn't great, but it was a team led by freshman and sophomores. Shalee was the starting point all four years. Her sophomore season was a huge disappointment. The team was off to a great start and just after the beginning of the conference season, Marlies Gipson, hurt her knee. It was an emotional defeat and the team really didn't pick up the pieces again until the post season. That year, the Wildcats finished tied for dead last in the Big 12 but managed to make it to the WNIT semi-finals. Shalee's junior and senior seasons were great. The team started off a little rocky her junior year but ended up knocking down one ranked team after another when the Big 12 season started. That year they finished first in the Big 12, clinching the title on KU's court. I drove six and a half hours to that ball game (and had to be back at work the next morning at 7:45 and I had bronchitis and absolutely no voice with which to yell!). It was worth every minute and cough. It ended up being Shalee's best scoring performance in college with 29 points. Shalee's senior season was solid but bittersweet when she was diagnosed with mono in February. Her stats were hurt badly by this and she missed three games but was at under 50% for about another three. I don't think she fully recovered until well after the end of the season. She had the second longest starting streak in the nation when she had to be benched. I don't know if I would compare her to Sue Bird... I think that only time can tell us if they are on the same court. What I can tell you is that Shalee has worked her tail for her entire life to get where she is. She comes from a town of 1,500 people in very rural southwest Kansas. There are NO AAU teams in the area. Her access to the "perks" that most elite high school players enjoy was very limited. The summer before she started college, she played AAU ball for the first time (I could be wrong here...). The team was based in the Kansas City are which is a good seven hour drive from Sublette, Kansas. Her parents drove her there for practices and then went all over the country that summer - her team won the national title. Her parents are not wealthy and have also worked their tails off to help Shalee live her Dream. Shalee's strength has always been assists - she broke the Kansas State career record very early in the her senior season. By the end of the her career she had an amazing 800 assist - 211 over the previous record. By the way, that record had been set by Megan Mahoney who also played in the W. Shalee is ranked in the top 5 in Kansas State history for rebounds. She often led her team in this column and actually amassed a number of triple-doubles in her Kansas State career. The thing Shalee does best is lead and make those around her better - I think Sue Bird probably has those same traits and that might be part of the comparison. Shalee is a coaches dream because she always wants to be better and will do what she is told. Shalee's personality is very charismatic and outside of basketball, the world is wide open for her. I think she is just now reaching a comfort level with this team which allows her to be more of that leader and possibly to be a little more aggressive toward the goal. She's got spunk and you'll see more and more of it in the future! lol I made the Sue Bird comparison off the fact that I'm not blinded by numbers or name recognition. Shalee is a ball wizard. Her court vision is spectacular. She's often passive because she would rather distribute at this point in her career. She is on a team full of scorers. Let Angel, Izy, Claw, Erica shoot it until they can't shoot anymore. Let Shalee "Sue Bird jr" Lehning lead those girls and get to spots on the floor that causes trouble. Not every PG has to be a shooter. Sometimes Sue Bird's scoring leaves alot to be desired, but her leadership and ball distribution/ball control is always on point. I see that for Shalee in the future. Glad shes in Atlanta...Ivory is great as well, very exciting--but shes more of a scorer to me. They both need defensive improvement. Also if Shalee wanted she could avg. 10 pts a game as well easily. She can't be stopped during her drive phase towards the basket...
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Post by jaye on Aug 16, 2009 18:30:09 GMT -5
you people have been watching a different lehning than i have....
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d3murf
Shooting Gaurd
Posts: 83
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Post by d3murf on Aug 16, 2009 20:11:15 GMT -5
Yeah man, I think I'm watching the Lehning that Coach MM is watching. Quick Twitch Athlete, that plays the mental game with the best of them and she's like 22 yrs old.....
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Post by cardman on Aug 16, 2009 21:54:35 GMT -5
The questions I have.... doesn't Shalee think the team needs the ten points she could score? If she could avg. ten points if she wanted to, why doesn't she want to?
The only mental game she plays, is the one where she believes the mythology of her greatness that mm is puting into her head. Maybe in another system, but not this one.
Again, I am not bashing Shalee. She should have been traded to a team where her talents could be better utilized. Clearly she has talent. No-one gets drafted into any professional sport if they have none. She just doesn't have the skills for this system.
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