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Post by lattafan on Aug 21, 2009 4:30:55 GMT -5
racism isn't just of the "not liking black people" variety.....it's also got to do with favoring your own kind over others.....can we say strouther .....can we say feenstra.....can we say lehning (shalee at least can play).....it's not a hard figure.....and plenty of people are starting to echo these sentiments.....especially in atl....winning or no winning.....mm has searched for that cute white poster girl since her first day in atl....it's no secret.....and it's starting to p*ss people off.... it's a shame that shalee is caught in the middle of this thing.....cause from all accounts she's a wonderful young lady.....she's fine as h*ll....and a good ballplayer.....but what she does...any adequate guard could do.....one thing she does have tho.....is a knack of being where the ball happens to bounce off of the rim at.....but latta is better than her.....clearly better.....and i don't care how many games we win...right is right..... as for latta trying to prove something at the half....what would you do if you scored in the 20's in back to back games coming off the bench and the next games you hardly saw the light of day.....remember when i said that it was going to effect her game.....it's what bad coaches do....they play with your head....and then when it effects your game.....they sit back and say....see....i told you she wasn't that good.....lehning has f**ked up plenty this season.....but mm takes it in stride....it's no big deal....she let hammon pick her pocket in the middle of a 4th qt sass run.....mm didn't even break a sweat.....had that been latta....she would have sat at the very next opportunity....you people say that mm was justified in yanking her at halftime....what was her excuse after all the great games that latta had and pulled us out of the fire just to be benched the next game.... know what.....this thing is obvious....those of you that refuse to see it.....my convincing days are over.... Strong post, Jaye.
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Post by lattafan on Aug 21, 2009 4:38:27 GMT -5
LMAO - Jaye - you can save your breathe or fingers cause these Shalee folks won't be convienced of NOTHING. Someone said something about all these assist she get. WTF I just don't know what folks are watching. Right now if you are a Dream follower you can pretty much predict what MN will do especially when it comes to Ivory. It's really sad what she is doing to that girls head. I knew when she missed that shot that would be it for the night. Issy can stand there and PLAY NO def and go for NO rebounds and it's OK, Ms. Shalee can cause extra def work for our bigs and and it's OK. Our bigs are constantly playing weak side defense because of Ms. Shalee - Like I have said time and time again that chick couldn't defend a pick and roll if her life depended on it. I wan't you all to get this in your heads - WE ARE NOT WINNING BECAUSE OF SHALEE LEHNING. If any of you guys were at the game and paid a little attn to the game and bench you would have seen how long it took Ms. Shalee to understand that Angel had a mismatch with Helen Darling and to get her the ball. Chamique stood up almost screaming from the bench several time trying to get Shalee to see the and work it. THIS IS WHY YOU ALL'S GREAT PG got the assist she did tonight. I'm sick of it. I'm happy the dream are winning but believe me it's not because of MN's coaching and MS. SHALEE's play. Hopefully this team listens to Mique and Carol Ross during their playoff/championship run cause MN cannot coach them to a championship and SHALEE - well I can save my breathe cause she isn't a factor and the other girls can run the show cause we know she isn't. GO DREAM. Something definitely does not smell right about this whole situation. Why leave 20+ points sitting on the end of the bench? Pride? It's awful and poor coaching. Letting your personal feelings get in the way of point production. I bet she'll reach out to Ivory during the playoffs. Talk about mind games. That has to be demotivating for a player. As long as this nonsense continues, I won't let it go...
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Post by cardman on Aug 21, 2009 6:29:00 GMT -5
The sad facts are:
1. The Dream will continue to win, not because of great coaching, but in spite of lack of descent coaching....Not because Shalee starts every game, and plays so wonderfully, but in spite of the fact that a less talented player is wasting the air that Ivory and the rest of the team could be breathing, and making every win a mountain to be climbed.
2. mm will probably be coach of the year, not because of her coaching abilities, but in spite of them, and the Dream will be in the play-offs if not the CHAMPIONSHIPS SERIES.
3. GM mm will give "coach" mm a nice bonus for a "job well done," and therefore making sure that the status quo will remain in place.
Of course, she probably won't have Ivory to jack up next year, but trust me, she won't have any trouble finding a new goat.
And we all know that the mm apologists and the Shalee fanatics will be ever so happy, because mediocrity is good enough so long as you win more than you lose, and the Great White HYPE is starting every game. It matters not to them that if the best 5 are on the floor, the Dream could ROLL through the regular season, and leave an indelible print on the playoffs.
If you're the head coach of a kick a** basketball team, and you could make the situation even better by starting your best players every game, and you flatly refuse to do it because of your basic racial views, you might be a REDNECK.
Join the 21st century mm. A Black Man is qualified to sit in the White House. Surely, Ivory Latta is qualified to be the starting PG for the Atlanta Dream instead of your cute white poster child. Get a grip on yourself, it's the team that matters not your personal feelings.
And by the way, Shalee isn't that cute. Can you say "Tangela Smith?"
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Post by lovethedream on Aug 21, 2009 7:20:34 GMT -5
Cardman... that's ridiculous! Please don't turn this into a racial thing. So disheartening.
Plain and simple.... the goal is to win. We have won almost every game since Shalee has been set as a starter. I am BY NO MEANS saying it is because of Shalee, but that combo is working, so why fix it??? Our subs off the bench are also working.... why fix it??? Unless we start losing it ain't gonna change! I truly hope Latta will get more playing time, but give this thing a rest people!!
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Post by jaye on Aug 21, 2009 7:29:24 GMT -5
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Post by nextivorylatta on Aug 21, 2009 7:49:35 GMT -5
ITS NOT EVEN ABOUT IVORY STARTING NOW ITS BOUT HER PLAYING PEROID...WE NEED HER ENERGY ESPECIALY SINCE CHAMIQUE ISNT PLAYING UP 2 PAR NOW...
WELL GO DREAM!!
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Post by cardman on Aug 21, 2009 7:51:13 GMT -5
slp....I am not trying to offend you, or "turn this into a race issue. I believe that it has been mentioned already, just in a less direct way. I beat around the bush less than others.
Seventeen years ago I would have been right there with you on that point. At that time I met the lady that I later married. She Is black, I am white. We have been married for 15 years. From the time we first started going out, we have "recieved the treatment" from a certain portion of the population, and from both sides. I know that smell when I smell it. This situation has angered me more than a little, and I just expressed it.
And I will continue to say that The Dream wins in spite of not because of.
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Post by cardman on Aug 21, 2009 8:26:13 GMT -5
OK Jaye, I have learned one thing: never argue with a man in love
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Post by lattafan on Aug 21, 2009 8:49:40 GMT -5
I don't think I'm going to change anybody's opinion anyway, but I'll go ahead and say it. There's an old saying, "never attribute to conspiracy that which is more easily explained by stupidity". Maybe I'm just naive, but I think if our coach were a racist, it would have shown up at Tennessee Tech or Florida State or somewhere during her thirty-plus years in basketball. We know two things about Coach Meadors: a) if she takes a liking to you, she'll always look out for you (-cough-Iziane-cough-), and b) if she takes a dislike to you, start looking for another team. There are a lot of players who have been in MM's doghouse. My impression - one that we probably all agree with - is that MM didn't really want to bring Ivory back. The reason Ivory came back was that Nikki Teasley wasn't hitting threes, and that Ivory could hit threes - this is back when our perimeter game was horrible. (It's not much better.) Ivory had a couple of other plusses. First, she knew what rudimentary system we had. Second - and more importantly - Ivory had a lot of fans. And our attendance took a dip, although Ivory only had a little bit to do with that. So MM swallowed her pride and got Ivory back, and it's very hard to eat humble pie. However, the Dream started winning with Lehning as the starter, and as long as the Dream stay hot, Latta is going to be on the bench. What killed Latta tonight was that play in the 2nd quarter. Latta made a 3-pointer that was pretty much a desperation shot with time almost up, but she made it. The next time she got the ball, with just 7 seconds left on the game clock she shot too early. She missed the 3-point attempt from the top of the arc, Vickie Johnson got the rebound, and sprinted down court, leaving Ivory to defend Vickie 1-on-1. With 1.3 seconds left, Latta was forced to foul Johnson to avoid the layup, Johnson hit both free throws, and we took a 4 point lead into halftime instead of a 6 point lead. At that point, Latta might has well have joined the Witness Protection Program. Latta didn't appear at all in the second half. There are some things that drive MM crazy. I remember when she pulled Angel McCoughtry out of a game because she was shooting under screens. This is Angel McCoughtry, mind you, the person who scored 34 points tonight. No one is safe from MM if she's mad; hide the dogs and lock the house. McCoughtry stayed in the doghouse for a few games after that. Anyone remember that? We've had at least three players just...walk out. No better way to explain it. Camille Little and Stacey Lovelace in that first year. Betty Lennox and Meadors clashed openly. I remember that game where she didn't even start B-Money. Tamera Young basically told MM to "play me or trade me" and she got her wish. (Armintie Price won't make those kind of demands, but lord, she has a 52.5 percent lifetime free throw percentage, shanking both of her 4th quarter free throws tonight. When Price is at the free throw line - you will know fear.) Shalee's game wasn't much to write home about, either. She had six assists, and one turnover, but all six points came at the foul line. But like it or not, as long as we're winning, Shalee will start. "You dance with those that brung ya." I don't think that Ivory will be here next year. It's got to be a hard choice for a player. Do you stick around when you're not wanted, or do you ask to go and potentially shorten your career? I think that the most tiresome part of the year has been the "Shalee fans vs. Ivory fans" rioting and the only thing that's kept it from being much worse is that the Dream has won seven of its last eight. What's my impression of Lehning and Latta? The locker room might take sides, but I don't think Lehning or Latta have anything personal against each other - they're just too cool to play the hate game. (They'd both like to start, which is their only contention.) The fans, however, can't let it go. Oh well, I'd rather have all the drama than the "so how did we lose this time?" discussions of the year before. Trust me, Lehning fans, those were no fun at all. Great summary, Pet. Emotions aside, Pet is right. Unless there are coaching changes in the works, some difficult personal decisions will have to be made (by some of our players) at the end of this season. Actually, if there are no coaching changes, I think those decisions will be made for them. I wish someone could help me understand the following equation: Former College PGOY/POY + Atlanta Crowd Favorite + Scoring Machine = End of Bench? I’m no rocket scientist but this math does not add up…. The part that bugs me the most is that other players are allowed to shoot bricks, miss defensive assignments, etc and they remain in the game. So much for using your deep bench, coach. Why allow 20+ points to waste away on the bench? Atlanta, we have a problem….
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Post by lattafan on Aug 21, 2009 8:50:32 GMT -5
slp....I am not trying to offend you, or "turn this into a race issue. I believe that it has been mentioned already, just in a less direct way. I beat around the bush less than others. Seventeen years ago I would have been right there with you on that point. At that time I met the lady that I later married. She Is black, I am white. We have been married for 15 years. From the time we first started going out, we have "recieved the treatment" from a certain portion of the population, and from both sides. I know that smell when I smell it. This situation has angered me more than a little, and I just expressed it. And I will continue to say that The Dream wins in spite of not because of. Strong post, cardman. Definitely a foul odor here...
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Post by nextivorylatta on Aug 21, 2009 8:59:32 GMT -5
slp....I am not trying to offend you, or "turn this into a race issue. I believe that it has been mentioned already, just in a less direct way. I beat around the bush less than others. Seventeen years ago I would have been right there with you on that point. At that time I met the lady that I later married. She Is black, I am white. We have been married for 15 years. From the time we first started going out, we have "recieved the treatment" from a certain portion of the population, and from both sides. I know that smell when I smell it. This situation has angered me more than a little, and I just expressed it. And I will continue to say that The Dream wins in spite of not because of. Strong post, cardman. Definitely a foul odor here... its definately been a foul odor in the past 5 games..and Coach MM has been tryin to use some frebreze to cover it up but shes starting to run out
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Post by thedefender on Aug 21, 2009 11:31:48 GMT -5
This is exactly what I knew was going to happen to Ivory as soon as she came back. Don't get me wrong I do think that Shalee is a good PG, but Ivory is definitely more aggressive than she is. I'm glad that the Dream are going to the playoffs but if MM don't start using her bench more, the team is not going to last past the first round!! I wish Ivory the best cuz I know it is hard (imagine how Tamera felt)!!! She seems to be so much happier in Chicago!! This is the 2nd time MM has traded a player that was on the bench and is now doing better with another team. (Little and now Tamera-even though she just got there).
Once again, MM is thee WORST!!! I bet Izzie is getting her playing time?? And she is the one out the gunning everytime her hand touches the ball!! Poor ATL fans, what are we going to do? I'm about to say the H%LL with MM and find another team!! (Just playing)!!
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tiggs
Bench Warmer
Posts: 40
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Post by tiggs on Aug 21, 2009 12:21:59 GMT -5
In my humble opinion, I think you guys are just never happy with any situation. If we lose, you complain. If we win but Ivory doesn't play, you complain, if Izzy in on fire but we lose a game, it's her fault, if coach doesn't play Tamera, she sucks, if, if, if, if....
I read all of you guys writing here constantly "One Team, One Dream". Have u ever considered what it really means? Right! It means that no matter who scored, who passed the ball, who got the rebound, who played longer, who had a bad night... nothing matters, as long as we are one the same page, focusing on the same goal, playing with the same passion, and having in mind we are ONE TEAM, going after ONE DREAM, and at the end, it all comes to that... nothing else really matters!
We have one of the best teams in the league. Be grateful to that. Only five people can be on the floor, it's impossible to make everyone happy. That's the way basketball is. It's impossible to give everyone 25, 30 minutes of playing time. It won't EVER happen!
How about start being more supportive and less critical to EVERYTHING?
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Post by nextivorylatta on Aug 21, 2009 12:29:52 GMT -5
In my humble opinion, I think you guys are just never happy with any situation. If we lose, you complain. If we win but Ivory doesn't play, you complain, if Izzy in on fire but we lose a game, it's her fault, if coach doesn't play Tamera, she sucks, if, if, if, if.... I read all of you guys writing here constantly "One Team, One Dream". Have u ever considered what it really means? Right! It means that no matter who scored, who passed the ball, who got the rebound, who played longer, who had a bad night... nothing matters, as long as we are one the same page, focusing on the same goal, playing with the same passion, and having in mind we are ONE TEAM, going after ONE DREAM, and at the end, it all comes to that... nothing else really matters! We have one of the best teams in the league. Be grateful to that. Only five people can be on the floor, it's impossible to make everyone happy. That's the way basketball is. It's impossible to give everyone 25, 30 minutes of playing time. It won't EVER happen! How about start being more supportive and less critical to EVERYTHING? Trust me i know where yu coming from but Da only complaining I do is bout the ivory situation with MM...N no everyone will not be happy but its still not right that coach treats ivory like dis.. I LOVE THE DREAM I CHEER 4 THE REGARLESS IF THEY ARE DOWN BY 30 LIKE LAST YR...I WUD ACT LIKE WE WERE UP BY 30 STILL CHEERING MY BUT OFF. B.C THATS THE TYPE OF FAN I AM..BUT WEN MM TREATS HER PLAYERS LIKE THIS I SPEAK MY MIND
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Post by civic97 on Aug 21, 2009 13:37:28 GMT -5
In my humble opinion, I think you guys are just never happy with any situation. If we lose, you complain. If we win but Ivory doesn't play, you complain, if Izzy in on fire but we lose a game, it's her fault, if coach doesn't play Tamera, she sucks, if, if, if, if.... I read all of you guys writing here constantly "One Team, One Dream". Have u ever considered what it really means? Right! It means that no matter who scored, who passed the ball, who got the rebound, who played longer, who had a bad night... nothing matters, as long as we are one the same page, focusing on the same goal, playing with the same passion, and having in mind we are ONE TEAM, going after ONE DREAM, and at the end, it all comes to that... nothing else really matters! We have one of the best teams in the league. Be grateful to that. Only five people can be on the floor, it's impossible to make everyone happy. That's the way basketball is. It's impossible to give everyone 25, 30 minutes of playing time. It won't EVER happen! How about start being more supportive and less critical to EVERYTHING? I understand where you're coming from but many posters on here have been following every move the Dream has made since the idea of a team in ATL was announced. Many of us cheered til the last second of every game last season and we all said "we will do better next season because the players want it". Yes, we do talk about the shortcomings of the team but we also give praise where its due. This is the nature of being a fan of ANY sport. We complain because we care. The day the boards go silent is the day ATL sees its "dream" fade away. Fans who care enough to watch every game and buy season tickets are the ones who keep the boards going. I would rather see people live and die with every shot and decision than not care. As far as playing time is concered, maybe you're missing the point that's trying to be made: ITS NOT ABOUT WHO PLAYS THE MOST MINUTES, ITS ABOUT A DESERVING PLAYER BEING BENCHED FOR WHAT BOILS DOWN TO PERSONAL ISSUES. ONE TEAM ONE DREAM IS ALLOWING ALL THE PLAYERS TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN. Ivory is obviously fine not starting but not playing is a whole different thing. Wanting a positive atmosphere is fine, just not realistic. The point of the boards is to express feelings and opinions about the team and the W. And the best part is that there are opinions from every angle. I respect your dislike of our being critical (some more than others) and I will do my best to point out the positives when I post. But for all the times I cheer the Dream on and all the times I defended them last season to nonbelievers it should be ok for myself and others to express when we're unhappy. Also as a side note, I'm not sure if you saw Angels interview after Thurs win but when she was being praised she stopped them and asked about freethrows and she wasn't happy with the performance even though she had a career high and the Dream won. So its not always simply getting the W, HOW a team does it is important also.
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